Vacuum Insulated Panels-new building method

[heinbloed]

VIPs (Vacuum Insulated Panels) have sucessfully been tested and are available now-for a price. Their advantage is the highly insulating effect combined with a very small amount of space/wall thickness. A passive house had been build with wall thicknesses between 150mm thick walls (plus cladding) with an U-value of 0.11 using timber frame construction method and 270mm and 330mm total thickness with an U-value of 0.11-0.12 .
Chapeau!
See this link for details:http://www.vip-bau.de/e_pages/start_e.htm

[heinbloed]

The solar house from the University of Darmstadt/Germany (home of the Passiv Haus)won the first price in the Washington solar declathon. Superinsulated with the most modern technology, vacuum insulated panels. Producing more energy than it needs, fueling an electric car in paralel.
See: http://www.solardecathlon.org/scores_standings.html

[VikingHouse]

Hi Hein

That looks great. Is it presently available for sale in Germany? What price?

[heinbloed]

The price is high, about twice of the ordinary wall build method. So it's major usage at the moment is for very expensive sites were every squaremeter of usable space counts. As well as for insulating listed/protected buildings. Imagine:a 40mm layer of VIP replaces 400mm(!) of standard insulation material.
This link provides some manufacturer adresses as well as building companys already using them: http://www.vip-bau.de/e_pages/links.htm If you're interested contact the vip-bau society as well (gouvernmental organisation), they might be able to train staff and subsidise show/exhibition projects.
You could insulate the German Embassy for example (smiley).....

[heinbloed]

Here is the home page of an VIP suplier: http://www.vaku-isotherm.de/indexen.php
Have a look at the flooring elements. Interesting for the renovation of uninsulated floors, very thin material with an extrem low U-value.
I think they're looking for sellers and installers as well, an oportunity ?

[sinnerboy]

Heinbloed this product is claiming a lamda value 10 times better than fibreglass .
that's amazing - but - can we believe the claim ? Has it been tested by an independent agency ?

[heinbloed]

Plenty of testing was done, the material is a registered building material in Switzerland, Germany, Japan, and many other countries. For more detailed infos check this page: http://www.vip-bau.de/e_pages/start_e.htm

and for some tests (only in German language, sorry) this one http://www.zae-bayern.de/deutsch/abteilung-2/spezielle-themen/vakuumdaemmungen.html

Try a translation programm. For detailed teat results contact the VIP page above, they're glad to help. Ask for the "Bauamtliche Zulassung" , this is an official permission for the usage as a building material.
Check also the "links" at the VIP page, plenty of manufacturers and test centers working with the material and much more.

[sas]

I assume you can't cut them. So you'd need to get them made to order for your specific application?

Can you fix through a VIP, i.e. batten against it externally to clad with cedar for example?

[heinbloed]

There are different types of VIPs available. The common VIP comes in various sizes and thicknesses, either "naked" or backed with EPS, PU foam or timber board , OSB or fibre. Or backed with rubber or stainless steel. These are all for different aplications. These standard sized VIPs can't be cut without loosing the vacuum.
But there are also on-site evacuation methods where the VIP (-vacuum) is produced on-site. These are more expensive of course.
Once the vacuum is established you can't drill throught them. Carefull planning (thermal bridging!) is important here. As well as trained staff. One method for decorative covering/cladding would be to use OSB covered sandwich VIPs, for example where the Internal Vacuum board is covered in foil(as usual) and then has two layers added, first a protective layer of EPS and then OSB. The OSB would hold the screw and the the EPS gives a safety zone in case the screw is driven in deeper then the thickness of the OSB.
This latter "sandwich VIP" will of course eliminate some of the VIP's major advantage-it's extreme slimline apearance. But it'll still be better looking then a 400 mm EPS/PU insulation layer.

[sinnerboy]

Heinbloed do you know if specifier / installer manuals are available - with diagrams and details .

The website does have a lot of impressive information however it is quite academic in nature .

It does indeed look like a very impressive innovation

Partick T - add this to your Czeck list

[Patrick T]

Heinblod,

I have "played" with the idea of vacuum insulation. We use vacuum insulation in electrical applications. The insulation, ele application is .375" in Vacuum is equal to 7" air gap arcing distance. But in this case, more vacuum is not better. It's defined as Passion's Curve. There is an idea Tor level.

My concept of of vacuum insulation is based on the ability to vary the insulation, not constant! As we all know, we design wall systems for the maximum savings. So in some times of the year, our configurations are not as ideal as other times. Case in point; in a high thermal mass wall exposed to constant heat or cold, high insulation is good. but if you have large temp swings part of the year, above and below desired home temps, no insulation is best. By this lack of insulation, the "flywheel affect" can absorb the excess heat of the day and release later in the night. My design/concept is based on sealed fiber glass panels 4" thick, internally suported to hinder colapse. Each panel would be hard tubed conected to a central vacumm pump. As the thermostat required, insulation would be maximized or minimized based on current need. As stated above, some days no vacuum would be needed. In the Spring and Fall when maybe the temps are mild, low vacuum would be called for.

Now the panels would also be the structure, fiber glass being very strong. some sort of furing strip could be used to hold sheeting some distance away to keep wild nails from puncture.

Just crazy ideas....

Patrick T.

[Patrick T]

sinnerboy,

yes it does. I have seen where vacuum panels are used in Sale boat refrigiration. Mainly due to compact size limitations. As I recall, it was some sort of foam with tiny vacuum bubbles inbeaded in the foam. What I like about vacuum is the amazing insulation level per inch. Foam is R=5 per inch and vacuum is R=200 per inch!

Patrick T

[heinbloed]

To sinnerboy: Check the VIP-BAU link for the manufacturers list. There are some in the USA , contact them (or check their homepages). VIPs are not easy-peacy to install, so a manual is only part of the learning process. The company Vaku-Isotherm offers training and has manuals as well , propably in German language only, ask them anyhow.

[heinbloed]

To Patrick T:
Your "crazy ideas" aren't that crazy. The Fraunhofer society is working already on the next generation of VIPs. These will contain a substance wich reacts with hydrogene gas. This reaction will make the "sponge" heavy, temperature transmitting. And allowing the VIP to transmit heat - or cold. Without destroying the vacuum.
When an electric currency is admitted to the VIP the hydrogene gas is set free again/released from the sponge and resetting the VIP's superinsulating quality.The concentration of the hydrogene would be so low that no "Hindenburg effect" will occure , hopefully.....
The creation of a vacuum in changing sequences will stress the material in the longterm, material fatique (?) will occure. In the building sector the insulation has to last as long as the building. But in other technical aplications a vacuum-pumped-on-demand might have a better commercial chance.

[heinbloed]

Concerning Vacuum Insulated Panels the German Ministry for Economics and Technology has published a leaflet concerning VIP's, incl. some pictures on how they're installed:
http://www.bine.info/pdf/publikation/projekt0907englinternetx.pdf
All in English.